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In developing a large set of functions and definitions, I sometimes got zero unexpectedly. In trying to identify the problem via Trace, the fact that Integrate doesn't give much insight in its inner workings turned out unhelpful.

Eventually I realized that the issue can be formulated as a minimal working example as follows (neither x nor f[x] are defined in the below; so this is purely symbolic):

Integrate[f[x] x^2, x] - Integrate[f[x], x] x^2
Integrate[Integrate[f[x] x^2, x] - Integrate[f[x], x] x^2, x]
Integrate[Integrate[f[x] x^2, x], x] - Integrate[Integrate[f[x], x] x^2, x]

(*
Out[1]= Integrate[f[x] x^2, x] - Integrate[f[x], x] x^2
Out[2]= 0
Out[3]= Integrate[Integrate[f[x] x^2, x], x] - Integrate[Integrate[f[x], x] x^2, x]
*)

So, the first line is not zero of itself. Using it as integrand in another integration over x, however, does yield zero. In fact, it does so when replacing x^2 with x^n for all n>1.

From Integration by Parts by hand, however, I reckon that the correct answer is

-n Integrate[Integrate[f[x],x] x^(n-1), x]

integrated once more over x, which is non-zero in general. Moreover, given the linearity of Integration, I was surprised that the second and third input line do not give rise to the same result, according to Mathematica.

I suspect that source of confusion may be the multiple use of x. Indeed, for specified functions, or when the Integrals are given appropriate limits, the issue disappears. As I am interested in the Indefinite integrals, this does not solve my problem. Am I missing something, mathematically? Or is this explainable behaviour of Mathematica? And, is there a workaround, that would always give me the result Out[3]?

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  • $\begingroup$ Welcome to Mathematica.SE! 1) As you receive help, try to give it too, by answering questions in your area of expertise. 2) Take the tour and check the faqs! 3) When you see good questions and answers, vote them up by clicking the gray triangles, because the credibility of the system is based on the reputation gained by users sharing their knowledge. Also, please remember to accept the answer, if any, that solves your problem, by clicking the checkmark sign! $\endgroup$ – user9660 Nov 16 '16 at 11:50
  • $\begingroup$ think about the consequences of how you choose to handle integration constants that arise from those nested indefinite integrals $\endgroup$ – george2079 Nov 16 '16 at 12:57
  • $\begingroup$ @george2079 Thanks. And sure, these constants matter. I omitted them in the manual answer I gave, as I do not see how they could necessarily lead to the 0 Mathematica gives. But, to which of my questions did you specifically react? Could you please elaborate a bit more? (And Louis: Thanks!) $\endgroup$ – RamonC Nov 16 '16 at 13:29
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    $\begingroup$ Note that Mathematica does not seem to automatically apply linearity properties to Integrate[] expressions (possibly because integrability is not automatically assumed). Related: (16098), (64422). $\endgroup$ – Michael E2 Nov 16 '16 at 13:34
  • $\begingroup$ you can see by trival use of a specific f that your hand result of a constant -n is incorrect. (I was assuming you had that right when I made my earlier comment) $\endgroup$ – george2079 Nov 16 '16 at 14:59
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From more of a programming point of view, there is an ambiguity in

Integrate[Integrate[f[x] x^2, x] - Integrate[f[x], x] x^2, x]

The problem is of scoping. There are in essence, three variables x, each belonging to one integral. In the simpler expression

Integrate[f[x] x^2, x] - Integrate[f[x], x] x^2

it is clear that the x in each integral is distinct and bound inside the integral and that the x^2 outside the second integral is free. But wrap this in another integral that binds x and the question becomes which x's belong to the third integral.

In some sense the answer is all of them, because the results of the interior integrals are depend on x which is to be integrated by the outer integral. When properly interpreted, the interior integrals are to be evaluated first and then integrated by the outer integral. But in this case, the inner Integrate[] codes return unevaluated. It may be (and it seems likely to me) that then all the instances of x in the integrand are treated as belonging to the outer integral. It's possible that x^2 Integrate[f[x], x] and Integrate[x^2 f[x], x] are mistakenly treated as equivalent. I'm not sure how to verify this without wading through a lot of internal trace output, which might be inconclusive. In some sense, it's a bug, but it might be a difficult one to fix.

One workaround it to use different symbols for different contexts, but that has drawbacks, too:

Integrate[
 Integrate[f[x] x^2, {x, 0, y}] - Integrate[f[x], {x, 0, y}] y^2,
 {y, 0, z}]

Integrate[Integrate[f[x] x^2, {x, 0, y}], {y, 0, z}] - 
 Integrate[Integrate[f[x], {x, 0, y}] y^2, {y, 0, z}]

Update: It appears from an internal trace that in the integral

Integrate[Integrate[f[x] x^2, x] - Integrate[f[x], x] x^2, x]

the constant x^2 multiplying the second integral of the integrand is replaced with a placeholder via a rule x^2 -> Integrate`Y. But that also replaces the x^2 in the first integral, which indeed would result in 0.

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  • $\begingroup$ Thanks a lot! Indeed, your workaround resolves the ambituities surrounding x. With some replacements afterwards, it may help to fix my original problem. Your update pointed me to the TraceInternal option, and makes clear where the problem originates. I am not nearly sufficiently familiar with Mathematica's internal workings to understand why x^2 -> Integrate`Y is done like this and what it implies. To me it continues to feel like a bug, which I will need to work around. Jens's reply here is useful for that as well. $\endgroup$ – RamonC Nov 16 '16 at 14:26
  • $\begingroup$ Indeed, while constructs like Table and Plot effectively use Block under the hood to localize variables, Integrate does not, which has always struck me as an oversight (but I imagine there must be some reason for that). As a consequence, things like Plot[Integrate[x^2, {x, 0, 1}], {x, 0, 1}] throw an error, because x isn't localized inside Integrate (not that I would recommend this code to begin with). $\endgroup$ – march Nov 16 '16 at 16:18
  • $\begingroup$ @march Block[] wouldn't help here, since x is never given a value by Integrate[] and the replacement would still mess things up. Rather, the x's need to be localized, but I'm not sure how to do that in a good way transparent to the user. $\endgroup$ – Michael E2 Nov 16 '16 at 17:28

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