# Finding differences between Pi with varying number of decimals

I have the following code

In[32]:= N[Pi, 2]

Out[32]= 3.1

In[33]:= N[Pi, 1]

Out[33]= 3.

In[34]:= N[Pi, 2] - N[Pi, 1]

Out[34]= 0.*10^-1


Why can't Mathematica find the difference between the two numbers?

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I'd bet there's a red box around the result... learn about Precision and Accuracy in the documentation, Mathematica is giving you what you've asked for. – ciao Mar 10 '14 at 7:52
@rasher this is not immediately clear to new users (or old ones w/o special need for Precision and the like), so might deserve some explanation. – Yves Klett Mar 10 '14 at 7:57
@YvesKlett: Or, I suppose those who blithely use software without bothering to even skim the documentation. It is, after all, covered in gruesome detail within the first sections... – ciao Mar 10 '14 at 8:00
@rasher not so sure about the documentation here - there is no link to Precision or Accuracy in the N documentation, and the effect in combination with Plus can be puzzling. Not all Mathematica users are computer scientists (count me in). – Yves Klett Mar 10 '14 at 8:08
@YvesKlett: Don't know what version you're on, but doc. center for 9.x has (among others) six links to tutorials and guides relating to accuracy and precision under 'N', and the second section of the virtual book covers it deeply. No big deal, but kind of a "why does the front of my car get all wrinkled-up when I bang it into a brick wall" kind of thing. – ciao Mar 10 '14 at 8:19

N does not round numbers or truncate them.

The internal forms of

N[Pi, 1] // FullForm
N[Pi, 2] // FullForm


are respectively

(*
3.14159265358979323846264338327950288421.
3.14159265358979323846264338327950288422.
*)


Note that the numerical values are identical although the precisions differ. Their difference is zero and all significant digits are lost. The Front End typesets numerical results in StandardForm by showing only the significant digits determined by their precision.

This may be closer to what you're after:

Table[
N[Floor[Pi, 10^n] - Floor[Pi, 10^(n + 1)]],
{n, 0, -5, -1}]
(*
{3.,
0.1,
0.04,
0.001,
0.0005,
0.00009}
*)


Update to incorporate some of the related points made in the comments:

According to the tutorial NumericalPrecision, a nonzero approximate number x with precision p is defined to have uncertainty Abs[x] 10^-p. Likewise, the precision of a nonzero approximate number x with uncertainty d is given by -Log10[d/Abs[x]].

If approximate numbers are added or subtracted, the uncertainties are added. There are similar such rules for other arithmetic operations and the evaluation of functions. Consequently given two numbers $x_1,x_2$ with uncertainties $d_1,d_2$, the precision of $x_1\pm x_2$ is given by $$p = -\log_{10}\left({d_1+d_2 \over |\,x_1\pm x_2|} \right)\,.$$

In the OP's case the precision would be negative (negative infinity at that). In cases where the precision is negative, Mathematica returns zero with corresponding computed accuracy.

Here is an illustration from the old comments. The function precDiff[{x1, p1}, {x2, p2}] computes the precision of the difference of numbers x1, x2 with precisions p1, p2.

precDiff[{x1_, p1_}, {x2_, p2_}] :=
-Log10[(10^-p1 Abs[x1] + 10^-p2 Abs[x2])/Abs[x1 - x2]]


This shows that the computed precision of N[34/10, 2] - N[Pi, 1] is negative.

N @ precDiff[{34/10, 2}, {Pi, 1}]
N[34/10, 2] - N[Pi, 1] // FullForm
(*
-0.129473
00.4582220427094728
*)


This shows that the computed precision of N[35/10, 2] - N[Pi, 1] agrees with Mathematica's .

N @ precDiff[{35/10, 2}, {Pi, 1}]
N[35/10, 2] - N[Pi, 1] // FullForm
(*
0.0113533
0.358407346410206761537356616720495800050.011353331924907081
*)

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Speak of this, I feel quite confused about how Mathematica decide the precision of the result produced by the calculation of numbers with arbitrary precision. (For this case, Precision[N[Pi, 2] - N[Pi, 1]] outputs 0., while one may guess the result should be 1. by intuition. ) The document seems not to explain this… have I missed something? – xzczd Mar 10 '14 at 11:06
+1 for illumination of what you see vs what's there. I thought of putting AccountingForm@(N@First@RealDigits[N[Pi, 20]]*10^Range[0, -19, -1]) in my OP, but not sure what results questioner is after. – ciao Mar 10 '14 at 11:06
@xzczd The numerical difference is zero: they're both the same 3.14.. - the 1 and 2 at the end just indicate the precision. N approximates Pi to a number of extra digits -- the docs say it will do this. However, it returns a result with the requested precision. – Michael E2 Mar 10 '14 at 11:19
@rasher Thanks and +1 to you, too, for a nice explanation of the general situation. – Michael E2 Mar 10 '14 at 11:20
Then how to explain the result of a = N[34/10, 2] - N[Pi, 1]; SetPrecision[a, 3]? – xzczd Mar 10 '14 at 11:24

Mathematica does not, by default, act like most calculators that will spew out digits in a result whether or not they are "valid" or "real" digits.

In most modes of usage, Mathematica keeps track of the precision of inputs, intermediate calculations, etc. and attempts to return results where the digits are correct, accurate, and "justified", that is, given a low-precision input applied to a high-precision input calculation, Mathematica will return results to the degree of precision warranted - you may better know this as significant digits. In fact, if you mouse-over the red box around the results you undoubtedly see, Mathematica will tell you what's going on "No significant digits are available to display."

You can see the effect of Mathematica's accuracy tracking by "forcing" the issue, e.g.:

81*81


returns

6.*10^1


instead of the 64 you might expect, because in the above example we've in essence told Mathematica the limits of the significance of our input.

Along with the manual control of such things, as alluded to earlier, Mathematica tracks how the values are used in calculations, and adjusts what is considered "significant" along the way to the end results, so they are displayed with no "false precision". You can observe this easily:

ListPlot[Accuracy /@ NestList[4 # (1 - #) &, 1/820, 20], Joined -> True]


Note that as the repeated calculation progresses, using prior results to produce new ones, Mathematica adjusts the significance accordingly.

There is no better place to get the details than Mathematica's own documentation, e.g.:

Numbers (overview)

Precision and accuracy control

Exact and approximate results

Numerical evaluation and precision

How to control the precision and accuracy of numerical results

And a couple (of many) excellent posts at this very site :

Very different results...

When can I assume...

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